desertrose wrote:

Hi Lee, May I ask you for some advice please. I've been playing for less than a year and I'm struggling with Irons 5 n longer. Judging by your statement below, I should not walk down the path of hybrids? I'm hesitant to as I want to master irons, maybe I'm a purist but I'm quite resistant to modern innovation . My swing speed is very slow 60-70mph. Thanks!

First of all, if you will allow me to be forthright, unless there is a physical reason, your swing is too slow, it can be much faster. In other words, under normal circumstances, there is no reason why you can get your swing speed beyond 70, up to 80, or even 90 mph.

I remember when I first picked up the club, Jack Niklaus' advice was, learn to swing as fast as you can. Once you got the speed, you can adjust the direction and flight. I could smack the iron to almost 90 mph no problem. The problem was, the swing was all wrong. That came later, much later.

I am guessing here, but I think you are afraid of the ball slicing out of control right, or pulling straight left occasionally, making you hold back.

Don't hold back. Whack it. Give it a good smack. Let your mind learn, hey, I can generate so much speed, and learn to trust that ability.

If it slices, and for most of us especially in the beginning it will, correct the swing instead of slowing down.

Long irons demand sufficient oomph to launch.

The key is - how do you correct the swing? That is the true journey. Look for a good coach if you can. Even that is no guarantee. But a good coach will help a lot.

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=2340843

This is an interesting stat table.

Measured from 8 million shots on the PGA Tour from 2003 - 2010.

It shows the probably of completing the hole from various distances and lies.

Lets look at 100 yard.

From the fairway it takes 2.80 strokes to complete the hole.
From rough, it takes 3.02 strokes to complete, which is about the same as slightly longer than 160 yards.

So the rough sets back the probability by more than 60 yards.

Fairway bunker will set it back by more than 100 yards.

Recovery shot (not sure whether this is under trees, blocked, or hazard and OB) will set it back by more than 200 yards.

Which goes to highlight the importance of accuracy off the tee.

Which got me thinking. If my wood is 10-15 meters shorter than driver, does it make sense to hit driver and potentially end up:
1. in the rough which sets me back 60 yards (55 meters)? Or worse, end up
2. in the fairway bunker which sets me back 100 yards (91 meters)?
3. under some trees or in some bushes, hazard, which sets me back 200 yards or 183 meters?

In other words, that additional 10-15 meters can cost me 55, 91, or even 183 meters.

The next time I tee up on a narrow fairway, rough, hazard or fairway bunker threatening, I will think twice about club selection.

Just when you think, this is a bit boring, driver, short iron, putt, putt, or driver, mid iron, chip, putt, golf gives you something exciting to keep you occupied. The very next round after a career best, you lose everything again!

Why? Because the mind cannot stop tinkering, and would not leave a good thing alone. So... now I know that particular swing thought DOES NOT work for 18 holes, ok?

The mental part is fascinating.

If I can maintain a calm, assured, unperturbed subconscious, the swing executes smoothly as planned. The key is how to maintain this regardless of the shot outcome, situations around you, slow flight ahead holding up play, etc etc.

Enjoy this fascinating game, folks. Cheers.

Golf is not about just striking the ball well, it is about being able to execute the shot under pressure and to recover from errant results.

Wonderful words of wisdom from our brother Denmeister above.

I find it also helped me tremendously to reduce the probability of errant shots where possible, by:
- developing a sound swing
- smart and where necessary, conservative club selection
- shot selection and placement

No guarantee the outcome will be guaranteed, but the probability will be improved in our favor, which always helps.

Lee36328 wrote:

Wonderful words of wisdom from our brother Denmeister above. I find it also helped me tremendously to reduce the probability of errant shots where possible, by: - developing a sound swing - smart and where necessary, conservative club selection - shot selection and placement No guarantee the outcome will be guaranteed, but the probability will be improved in our favor, which always helps.

Yes, totally agree on keeping the ball on the fairway as much as possible. A bogey is quite attainable when that happens.

However, for long hitters like yourself, there is always the internal battle within when u know that u are able to shoot a better score than a bogey if u push it a little by using a more aggressive strategy. This is especially true when there are bets on the line.

Denmeister wrote:

Lee36328 wrote: Wonderful words of wisdom from our brother Denmeister above. I find it also helped me tremendously to reduce the probability of errant shots where possible, by: - developing a sound swing - smart and where necessary, conservative club selection - shot selection and placement No guarantee the outcome will be guaranteed, but the probability will be improved in our favor, which always helps. Yes, totally agree on keeping the ball on the fairway as much as possible. A bogey is quite attainable when that happens. However, for long hitters like yourself, there is always the internal battle within when u know that u are able to shoot a better score than a bogey if u push it a little by using a more aggressive strategy. This is especially true when there are bets on the line.

Betting scenarios is understandable, esp if your opponent has upped the bet and then put it straight down the fairway or on the green close to the pin for a birdie putt.

Not trying to be long. The course I play is not long, but very windy. So, a carefully placed shot is often times better than a long shot that risks being blown off course where I play. And some rough are short, but some are simply best avoided all together.

I recall seeing Miguel Angel Jimenez outplay Bubba Watson on a hole in Ryder cup. Bubba only had a wedge left as usual, whereas Miguel was hitting hybrid for his approach. Wily fox knew his strengths and played to it. Of course, that said, Bubba is a Masters champion whereas Miguel is not. Augusta rough is not very penalizing. When the rough is that forgiving, Bubba could just about miss it anywhere he wants, and bend the ball around all those trees to find the green.

It's interesting that this game requires us to think and plot our way around the course, much like a chess board.

Fascinating.

Before it slips my mind, a friendly suggestion.

Don't practice chipping from the range mat.

It messes with your feel for distance because the mat offers no resistance, unlike grass.

I have stopped the practice. Instead, practicing all my short game from grass or hardpan or bunker. Distance feel is improving.

Have fun, folks!

Hi Lee
Thanks for your advice.
You wrote:
First of all, if you will allow me to be forthright, unless there is a physical reason, your swing is too slow, it can be much faster. In other words, under normal circumstances, there is no reason why you can get your swing speed beyond 70, up to 80, or even 90 mph.

I understand there're 3 movements to a full swing- I) the dropping of arms at the shoulders, ii) the right elbow (piston effect) n III) the release /whip effect of the wrists

The challenge for a beginner seeking more speed is the timing of these 3 actions. I still tend to do it rather mechanically rather than instinctively.

Regards

desertrose wrote:

Hi Lee Thanks for your advice. You wrote: First of all, if you will allow me to be forthright, unless there is a physical reason, your swing is too slow, it can be much faster. In other words, under normal circumstances, there is no reason why you can get your swing speed beyond 70, up to 80, or even 90 mph. I understand there're 3 movements to a full swing- I) the dropping of arms at the shoulders, ii) the right elbow (piston effect) n III) the release /whip effect of the wrists The challenge for a beginner seeking more speed is the timing of these 3 actions. I still tend to do it rather mechanically rather than instinctively. Regards

You're most welcome.

Here's a new swing paradigm for you to consider: The arms or hands should not be the dominant thought in the swing. Get the body pivot right, and the arms and hands will react.

Just to explore for the sake of discussion, think skipping a stone over the surface of a pond.

Just go ahead and make that motion.
- Was it mechanical or instinctive?
- Did you have to think about the timing of the movements i, ii, iii you listed above?
- Was your lower body involved or did the lower body stay still?
- from the top, which part of the body started the movement first?

It gives some clues to what should be happening in a golf swing.

From your description, it sounds like you are not involving your lower body in the swing, which perhaps explains why your swing speed is on the low side.

Something for you to consider and explore the next time you pick up a club. Enjoy.

Cheers.

Hi Lee
Thanks for your input. It took me a few months to discover us in the lower body ( I learnt the theory but couldn't apply it naturally ). Only a week ago I had begun to "feel" the power transfer from lower body to the swing . The upper body currently still has a "mind of its own". Hope to fine tune that soon.

desertrose wrote:

Hi Lee Thanks for your input. It took me a few months to discover us in the lower body ( I learnt the theory but couldn't apply it naturally ). Only a week ago I had begun to "feel" the power transfer from lower body to the swing . The upper body currently still has a "mind of its own". Hope to fine tune that soon.

Well done.

You are on the right track, keep it up.

Putting the swing to the test on-course was a revelation.

Am pleased with the distance and consistency.

Holds up well in the rain too. Did not expect that, a bonus.

It was useful to review each game post round and study the tendencies.

Also my thanks to bro Denmeister for sharing his wisdom.

Very satisfying to identify weak spots, work on them, and watch the score reflect the improvement when the work is put in. Collecting some winnings along the way just adds to the experience.

Hello, guys!

It sure has been a while...

Wow... so much history.

Looking forward to catching up.

Watch this space!

First things first.

I need a new driver.

All search seems to point to Epic or Epic a Sub Zero...

Hmmm... which should I go for?