Yes sadly i have that play ground mentality... My england is not as good as yours sadly. What i meant was that other people do this to and im member of other forums and dont hear of anyone make an issue out of this. Never did i say that if others can do it means Kheng and others can do it too.

Ultimately theres NOTHING written anywhere or for that matter even an unwritten rule that makes selling of volunteer tshirts or items to be deemed as wrong or unethicall. As i said, all items after the event is considered owned by the volunteers. So why bring up about selling umbrellas during the event? This was never raised and I for one would say that such a practice would be unethical.

I say it again there is NOTHING to show that what Kheng has done is wrong or questionable. Only you feel it is not right for some reason.

Kheng and many others voluntered willingly and for him to do his work was given some item to facilitate this work. End of the day the organisers didnt say you cant sell or have to keep in your posession. Am sure otehrs would have given this as a souvenir or sold this privately.

Ethics is a subjective thing la...

If Pughdog (who is chairman of the volunteer event) feels that what kheng is doing is unethical then so be it la

Zool, since you admit your england not good then maybe you don't understand what Pughdog is saying. Because Pughdog said and i quote "The ethics of profiting from a sponsors generosity is PERHAPS questionable".

SO the key word is "perhaps".

i've read this long.

and i'm jumping in.

1) i dont think there's issue on ethics cuz its not written anywhere that no one cannot sell things he got free in the 1st place, either in golf or in life. Unless it is in the book, then it is merely opinion.

2) it is not against the Law of Malaysia, whether the written one or the non-written one (common law) that against this sale. anyone can buy and anyone can sell.

3) when things are not prohibited, it means it is permitted.

4) it is ok to bend the rule, but make sure u dont break them.

5) view of people who says its not ok to sell this shirt should be accepted, and so does who says its ok.

pughdog wrote:

The ethics of profitting from a sponsors generosity is perhaps questionable. Anyway, I wish you luck with your sale. Apologies if you felt my original comment was harsh, I don't believe it was.

Guys, let's keep this all in context. Read my posts again. I never mentioned any rules or laws being broken here. I think I quite clearly stated that it was my opinion only.

I'm a professional golfer. I'm lucky enough to receive items from various companies from time to time for my own use free of charge or in exchange for my time. I can honestly say I have never sold any of these items. I have given away tons of stuff when I no longer have a use for it. But I, and again this is just my opinion, feel it would be unethical for me to sell such items.

I know plenty of pros who have received equipment over the years only to sell it at a later date. Not only do I think that's not the correct thing to do I can guarantee you the equipment supplier felt the same way. This isn't apples for apples. The volunteers shirt is a different case altogether and thankfully an open forum like this allows all of us to air our views. Perhaps there isn't a right or wrong point of view here. But I am entitled to my opinion as much as the next guy.

pughdog wrote:

Safari wrote: i'm laughing thinking about the idea of buying this shirt from you and wearing it and having people think I volunteered. Then I got to tell everyone I did not volunteer and i just bought it off a guy online.... I think this shirt is becoming quite famous. I may have inadvertently driven up the demand for it Better still Safari why not sign up for the next event and actually volunteer* It's a wonderful experience, very rewarding and you get to see some fantastic golfers up close and be part of the action. The EurAsia Cup is just around the corner..... * Warning - blatant recruitment

nah, it is ok. I neither want to volunteer nor want to explain to people that i did not volunteer despite wearing a volunteer shirt...hahaha

Aiya...dont gaduh2 la.....small thing only. Even get voucher buku 1Malaysia also people try to sell off.

By the way, if sponser, organizer, chairman or whoever supply the shirt for volunteer want to control this shirt not for sell, make sure every volunteer need to sign an agreement letter will not sell the shirt at all IN FUTURE EVENT. Now is too late to control now and if somebody willing to pay rm1k also u maybe sell off urs also.

Now im quite sure the demand of this shirt is damn high, every clubhouse i play always ask who become the volunteer for the CIMB event, sure ask for the shirt either used or never use (coz have 2 shirt). Got people also not willing to sell due to sentimental issue. But again, the J.Lindeberg brand is damn good brand n quite expensive, and I heard the organizer this year treat the volunteer very good not only shirt, but basic needs as well during the event.

Suddenly i feel JL brand much higher acceptance & demand compare to other brand like Nike, Adidas, FJ. This is freedom country, supply n demand is very critical here.

krul86 wrote:

I heard the organizer this year treat the volunteer very good not only shirt, but basic needs as well during the event.

I'm very pleased to hear it

pughdog wrote:

krul86 wrote: I heard the organizer this year treat the volunteer very good not only shirt, but basic needs as well during the event. I'm very pleased to hear it

Credit to you, chairman of the volunteer of the event if I not mistaken. The lucky draw for the Post-Event tournament for volunteer also very attractive since they compare with previous LPGA event. I understand your feeling for the tshirt issue, yet as long the outcome of the event is successful should be good enough, treat the shirt issue a credit to them as well either to sell or keep it.

I heard lot of PGA Tour golfer give very good feedback about the volunteer & overall event. Very sporting, supportive and good respect during tournament. They said will be back again for next year tournament.

the shirt has just been sold to a gentleman.

i didn't expect posting a volunteer shirt up for sale would cause quite a stir, but it's great to see people posting their views on this matter nonetheless.

in the end, let's not make a big fuss over this matter!

apologies for the trouble caused.

I have read the comments of both the volunteer seller and the volunteer chairman.

Both have their rationales as expressed in their respective comments.

I can't help thinking that
1. The sizing problem could have been overcome if early prior proper arrangements had been made to ensure that the volunteers got their right sizes.

2. The issue of a volunteer selling his t-shirt may diminish if his name had been pre-printed on the shirt. Again, this mean scheduling more time to do this. The effort may be worth the while for the great pride in wearing a shirt personalised with one's own name.

3. Getting such pricey t shirts may be good incentive to be a volunteer. Keep it going with no lesser brand for next year Game. For there may now be many more others wanting to become volunteers after all the publicity in this case.

okwoon wrote:

I have read the comments of both the volunteer seller and the volunteer chairman. Both have their rationales as expressed in their respective comments. I can't help thinking that 1. The sizing problem could have been overcome if early prior proper arrangements had been made to ensure that the volunteers got their right sizes. 2. The issue of a volunteer selling his t-shirt may diminish if his name had been pre-printed on the shirt. Again, this mean scheduling more time to do this. The effort may be worth the while for the great pride in wearing a shirt personalised with one's own name. 3. Getting such pricey t shirts may be good incentive to be a volunteer. Keep it going with no lesser brand for next year Game. For there may now be many more others wanting to become volunteers after all the publicity in this case.

Okwoon

1) Let me assure you, early, proper arrangements are made wherever possible. All volunteers are asked their shirt size on registration. However, this is often before we know the actual sizing of the shirt depending on manufacturer. In my experience over the last 5 years we have had different shirt sponsors each year therefore the fit of the shirt also changes considerably each year making it close to impossible to guess which sizes to order. We do the best we can and I think this year a high percentage of volunteers got the correct size.

2) Customizing almost 1000 shirts, whilst a nice idea simply isn't cost effective or logistically possible. Printing costs aside, consider the fact that this year on the 1st day of the tournament we had 78 volunteers 'no show'. In other words, out of the 300+ we had registered for that day, 78 people signed up to volunteer, replied to emails saying they would be coming to the event but failed to arrive. 78! Can you imagine the waste involved if each one of those volunteers had a shirt waiting for them with their name nicely printed on Also please consider the logistics of handing out over 300 shirts early in the morning at registration, as it is it's an incredibly time consuming job for our volunteer logistics crew, if we had to search for individual named shirts as volunteers came in to register it would make this process even longer and more difficult. But I'm sad to say it's mainly the risk of someone not turning up that makes this option not feasible.

3) I really don't want to stir up another argument here but, should the brand or cost of the volunteer uniform really dictate whether someone volunteers or not? Surely the desire to help run Malaysias only PGA Tour, FedEx Cup event, arguably the premier golf event in Malaysia should be enough to encourage people to volunteer their time? The event is televised across the globe, it is a direct advertisement for Malaysia and the golf experience that we, as a country have to offer. We are incredibly fortunate each year to have hundreds of very kind people, Malaysians as well as foreigners living or even just visiting Malaysia, sign up to volunteer.

But if we were not fortunate enough to secure a 'pricey t-shirt' supplier as a volunteer uniform sponsor I'd hope that we would still have the same numbers of incredibly generous people registering. Someone that chooses to volunteer based purely on the brand of the shirt they will receive in exchange for their time is probably doing it for the wrong reasons. Our volunteers are like family to us, we try our very best to look after them as best we can

Absorbing posts....... end of the tale of two shirts